KURTZ: OK. Let’s move—let’s move beyond the legal justification. You think the public doesn’t have a right to know because classified information is involved that the CIA is maintaining secret presence in Eastern Europe, that the Bush administration is conducting wiretaps in this country without—without warrants? You would be just as happy if reporters could not publish that kind of information?

HINDERAKER: Oh, absolutely. There’s all kinds of information that you can’t give to the American public without also giving it to the terrorists. That’s what “The New York Times” did, and as a result our security has been compromised.

The NSA program was capturing lots of international terrorist communications. That’s dropped off drastically since “The New York Times” published the story. So they’ve—they’ve damaged our security.